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Spirituality vs Religion – What spirituality really is, how spirituality differs from religion, and how to practice spirituality empirically.
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Disclaimer: All personal development advice and information is provided as-is and may not suit your specific circumstances. It may also contain errors or omissions. Neither Actualized.org, nor any of its employees, nor Leo Gura is liable in any way for any potential damages that may be incurred from this information. By listening to this advice you agree to take 100% responsibility for your life!
@Richard Catlin The first half of your comment is accurate. There simply is
what is. To call it Truth is already to distort it. But in common parlance,
this is what truth is meant to be. Truth is accessed through being. Not
perceiving, but being. This is not something you’re presently capable of
because you believe too strongly that there is an object and a subject.
There are objects, but no subject. The subject (you) simply doesn’t exist.
There is no such thing as consciousness vs. reality. There is only what is.
You cannot ask questions like the questions you’re trying to ask: “Is the
truth universal or subjective.” This is a confusion. There simply is what
is. You can’t analyze it. Once you see this, all these kinds of questions
will simply become irrelevant. There is no need for questions when you in
the truth. The need for answers is an egoic-need.
There is no distinction between spirit and reality. It’s all one thing. You
can name it anything you like. It doesn’t matter.
I did NOT say it was true. I told you in the video that nothing I said was
the truth. All you got was a story.
If you liked this video, I recommend you watch these related videos too:
1) Openmindedness – Why Your Life Is A Cage
2) Good Vs Evil – A Shockingly Simple Model Of Morality
3) What Is Ego – How Your Ego Dictates Your Entire Life
but the only thing I got out of it, is that everyone and everything are
connected. All religion are all the same, and atheist and science is just
the same as religion. because they are still beliefs? that right?
You really need to stop acting like you have all the answers. Some of us
are going to get the wrong idea.
So Ill start out by saying that I am one of those more scientifically
minded people when it comes to these sorts of things. I like to think a lot
and I like to think about reality a lot. So the notion that you proposed
that you cant get to the truth of reality just by thinking about it is
interesting but I dont know if I completely accept it. Right of the bat
thou, there were a lot of things you said that are wrong like that being an
atheist is a belief which by its definition it is a lack of a belief, and
my world view is for the most part based off of what scientist have
discovered about our universe [reality.] You can argue that it is a belief
in that Im trusting what they are saying but still…
So here is the thing, the human brain/mind is very limited. We are very
limited by our senses, our perceptions, our former experiences, and by our
consciousness. We cant for example dream up a new color because that is
beyond the limit of our senses perceptions and experiences. And while there
are multiple states of consciousness they are finite. There is no
undiscovered state of mind now a days, (This could be wrong but lets just
assume there arent.)
Because of these limitations I feel like science and thoughts are the best
way to get to real reality. And that “real” reality is the reality we all
share, plane and simple. There is absolutely no reason to assume anything
further than that the things in front of you are as they are and that there
is something behind the curtain so to say. Science is a tool we use to
observe the universe and figure out how it works, scientist know something
is true or real when they can repeat an experiment multiple times or
accurately predict how something will behave based on former observation.
This is how we can predict lunar eclipses 100 of years into the future
because they will ALWAYS happen the same way.
But you can argue that “well science predicts stuff sure but what if its
all just a hologram or something nothing is real.” Well to that I would
like to propose thinking about the problem based on Occam’s Razor. The
simplest solution is often the more correct one. This doesnt mean that im
stating anything as fact, but based on all the limitations of the human
mind that I stated before Occam’s Razor is the closest we can get to a
logical conclusion on what is reality. We can never know for certain but
using logic and not jumping to conclusion, I find, that the simplest
solution is that reality is as it is. Basically when you state that there
is something more out there it brings up a lot of questions like what is
it? Who can experience it? How do you know its out there? Who told you?
idk… I think you get me, basically the solution to reality you are
posting is a lot more complicated and assumes way more than a simplistic
view, which doesnt mean its wrong but its just easier to handle and
probably more correct to say it isnt.
Lastly I just wanna touch on the stuff you were saying towards the end
about the blabber mouths and the whole thing with new york and L.A part
with the map. You say that if you have the wrong map you wont get to New
York but how do you know that YOU have the right map? Here is the thing you
talk about spirituality the same way religious people talk about religion
and to an extent atheist talk about how all of it is bullshit, and how I
described my belief up there ^^^. In the end of the day no one really knows
and will never be 100% sure yet everyone is really quick to say someone
else has the wrong map but, “No, I have the right map,” basically what im
asking is how can you be so sure, or at least as sure as you sound in these
video,
Im not sure but I feel like the best course to finding truth is using logic
to get as close as possible to it, Sorry this was so long I do hope you
read it all because I wanna know your opinion on it, or anyone elses
opinion who believes in this kind of stuff.
Man…u are going to get a lot of shit about this video from fanatics.
Dude, I am disappointed at you. Most of your videos are interesting but
this one was weird. First you say “You don’t exist”- If I don’t exist, then
who or what wrote this comment? Let me guess now you’re about to say this
comment doesn’t exist too.
And one more thing: Atheism is NOT a belief, that’s why it’s called
A-theism. An Atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in God BUT an Atheist
doesn’t BELIEVE God doesn’t exist either.
C’mon man, stop smoking funny things!
love your videos, you definitely have a gift!………there are a few
physicists who are saying the entire universe is a hologram and I agree
with them due to the double slit experiments and the upturn and down turn
of quarks (look it up….it’s some scary stuff). If everything in this
universe is a hologram ….including our thoughts…..then I disagree with
you…..we cannot have direct access to this “truth”……because we are a
negative…..a non existence…….we have no way of knowing what is on the
other side of the projector.
I can’t really say I understood how I would go about this, neither do I
feel like this “oneness” stuff makes much sense, but you already said we
will think that haha.
Spirituality = Crap
So are we talking about about tapping into one’s self- awareness and a
state of enlightenment ? How exactly to we do this? If not meditation, gods
etc?
Would it be possible that your feeling ‘what we know is an illusion’ comes
from not been able to abandon faith completely. Could it be that you are
projecting your unconscious in the wierdest way? Can it be that if nobody
had taught you religion in first place, you would be with different
conclusion and understanding?
You say that this is true spirituality while at the same time stating that
99.9% of people that think they understand spirituality actually don’t
understand it? Just because this is true spirituality to you – it doesn’t
mean that anyone elses form of spirituality can’t be true. This is because
your reality and my reality might not be the same.
“In order to survive, we cling to all we know and understand and label it
reality. But knowledge and understanding are ambiguous; the reality you
know could be an illusion and all humans live with the wrong assumptions.”
With that quote said; knowledge and understanding are ambiguous – unless we
have the exact same understanding and experience of the world, we won’t
share the same reality and therefore our spirituality might also be totally
different.
If you want to teach people to open their minds then you shouldn’t state
what is right, wrong, true or false unless you’ve been in their shoes. What
is true in your real reality might be false in someone elses… This is a
very tricky topic even if you explain at the end of the video. Spirituality
could simply be to reflect over and understand your own mind, body and it’s
surroundings relative to yourself – it doesn’t need to go higher or deeper
than that to be true.
Your world is not absolute.
I’ve had people like you say this to me before, my first question, not
taking any sides on whether the content in your video is right or wrong ,
but my first question is how is this necessary and why would one need this
in order to live a fulfilling life? also why did you curl up into fetal
position, who cares if you understand that your are strictly the happenings
of nature…. why did you have such a strong reaction to this? why do we
have to care that there is no controller doing the controlling, and that
there is no perceiver doing perceiving? why is this important? how does
this make life more enjoyable and make me a better person. I don’t get it
nor do I understand the relevance?
Cheers,
Isn’t there value in religion to a self-disciplined mind? As a christian, i
think that a direct encounter with truth is the same thing as a direct
encounter with God, someone/thing (depending on your beliefs) which is
pervasive through everything and exists on a plane that human “experience”
can not reach. Therefore, i think somebody who does not make any
presumption of understanding God but instead searches for him with an open
mind and curiosity can use religion and the words of those who came before
them as a starting point to achieve a direct encounter with absolute truth.
I do acknowledge that everybody has the tendency to make God/Truth a purely
logical concept and some people do that through religion, but i would be
curious what you think about religion being a means and a starting point to
achieve a direct encounter.
bro are u talking about new age movement?
I’ve had 2 experiences where i perceived that even “evil” people had a
purpose, and that everything was perfect. It hit me like a rubber band
being launched from extreme anxiety to extreme peace. It lasted maybe 6
minutes.
Hey, first video I watch of you, and I like it, definitvely subscribed. You
remind me of Elliot Hulse. You both love to share your knowledge and both
talk about very important aspects of life.
The answer is Just be who you are. DO NOT FALL FOR ANYONE’S BELIEFS BELIEVE
IN YOURSELF.
Hey Leo, while practicing mindfulness, meditation, direct investigation or
anything else that raises awareness, what is becoming more aware? Is the
ego becoming more aware of itself and that it is not real? While becoming
more aware are all thoughts generated from the ego? Also, what was
speaking when Buddha, or any enlightened form, spoke? I’ve been thinking
about this stuff a lot lately and wanted to know your opinion on all of
this. Thanks
This makes me wonder; aside from survival instincts, do babies experience
true spirituality since they do not possess preconceived notions about
whatever they are interacting with? The only times I feel I (may) have
really experienced truth, have been while lucid dreaming. There really are
NO words to comprehensively describe what happens to me when I am in this
state; although, it’s like I am incapable of thinking about the experience
at the time.
i grew up in a catholic church and went to catholic school for years. for
some reason or another i can not truly believe in organzied religion but i
want to have a relationship with the god i prayed all my life is that
possible to have a relationship with god and be spiritual.i say that
because i am lead to believe that the holy bible is god/jesus word and the
only way i can have a relationship is if im catholic.i hope i made sense
Not that I am doing a critic, but how can you stay 40 to 60 min standing up
and talking for us?
What do you get in exchange for this?
Your comments on science seem a little off. I’m sure that parts of science
are a little dogmatic and even working on a little on faith. The problem I
have at this point is you didn’t really define what parts of science you
think this exists in. The vague comments were ironic considering the
subject. The most concerning phrase was your use of theories. I could
assume you’re talking about theoretical physics then I’m with you, it is a
little bit faith-y. However, I suspect you might be confusing scientific
theory with hypothesis; a stark difference exists between the two.
My other big concern is confusing Atheism for a religion. Granted, some
people are making it seem very much like some sort of church however, for
me, an agnostic-atheist, there is no system of belief. It’s important to
note it is not something I describe myself as, it is an answer to a
question. I don’t think upon the subject in the same way a religious person
might, I don’t think about rituals, prayers and it doesn’t influence my
thinking. My actions are not based on a series of rules or interpretations
from a deity, or how it might feel. I’m not obliged to say or do certain
things because I’m an atheist. Do you see the difference? To the religious,
it’s a part of their lives, for me it isn’t. I don’t go out of my way to
avoid it, I’m comfortable considering the subject Hence agnostic; a
summation of my findings so far.
Beyond this an interesting and thought provoking video with many things I
could add to this comment and expand upon, but I’ll leave it at those for
now.
:)
To be honest you’re not the first person to point this out but still
interesting. Thanks such an eye opener!
I need one help from you Leo… I want to know more stuff on this… so
that i can point me in the right direction.
I know few book from eckhart tolle, j krishnamoorti, and few people who
talk on mindfulness.
Would you suggest any other books upon these topics?
I would like just to tell you. I´m 18 and i´m agreeing with you the whole
way though. I only had very few arguments with my self. I feel like i´ve
discovered a lot about life, without even doubt it being right. Thank you
for all of this amazing material!
I can tell throughout the video that you are struggling to a degree trying
to explain what all this really means. It’s next to impossible to speak
what you know when you have the universe within. Good on you for trying,
you did an exceptional job. There aren’t enough words. The words don’t even
exist. I know what you know.
Science is not dogmatic. Some scientists might be dogmatic in their
attitude, but they are practicing science wrong.
This is a very confusing topic. We seperate ourselves through the illusion
of ego, so when we manage to drop the illusion and get the taste of reality
we feel connected to the world. If I’m not mistaken that experience is
explained by quantumn physics and the invisible field that connects us all.
And I understand all those are beliefs but don’t they explain the reality
which you and every other person that have felt the oneness talks about?
I’m sure it can’t explain how it actually feels but it explains how it
works.
Also the all mighty Matrix which is the bridge between the human and the
field, contacting the field is how we can from our Matrix alter the
physical world.
Also they talk about the way to control the matrix is by belief. I’m not to
clear on how that works but the point is here you say drop all belief
because they are illusory and make part of your ego which is ultimately
what needs to be removed, on the other hand they say the way to control one
of the most powerful human technology is by connection of thought and
emotion which creates a belief in your heart.
And that is achieved through meditation ?
Hi leo, today i opened my eyes to the reality and it felt incredible,
everything had a different perspective and i was quite shoked, the human
mind is incredible.. I started crying and was pretty euphoric and scared
about it, i now realise that i can achieve everything i want, its freaking
awsome, its very very hard to achieve this state of mind but now i feel as
i can really get results for my personal development, i also realise that
very few people can understand this subject.
I really like this topic and I’m glad that you are also covering this in
your videos. This idea of reality and true nature is quite familiar to me.
In fact, I first heard about this kind of understanding when I was 16 (I’m
now twenty) as I read Nietzsches “On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense” (I
know, not the typical literature for an 16 year old…)
But I still have some questions that popped up in my mind:
1) Is there something like an ultimate way to experience truth and reality?
The way I understood it, meditation, mindfulness and constant
self-awareness should be some reasonable ways to get there.
Is that sort of the right way to do it?
2) I also researched some substances like LSD or Psilocybin that may get
you in an much higher state of reality (some people even report ego deaths
or the experience of oneness with everything). But im not shure if this
stuff is like a misleading shortcut or something, allthough I’m interested
in trying these out to make the experience. But I’m affraid that I head in
the wrong direction if I try these.
What is your opinion on that?
Thanks :)
do you believe that truth is experience the same way to everyone unlike
anything else like perception which is experience somewhat differently for
everyone?
Can you see the matrix Leooo ? 🙂
Amazing video!!!. You are helping me a lot to improve my personal
development. Like
im sorry my english writing not so good. i need your help to bring me back
into that whatever(i cant explain as you cant explain that) you talking
about. i was forced to deeply unconcious with violence to believe a
religion & now i have this conditioning & trauma including self limiting
believe which kept me away from that. i still can remember what it is but
not to clear & i’ve been struggle like hell to see it again cause i almost
forgot how it does cause i repressed it. i hope you understand what im
saying (i agree its hard to explain). would you help me by telling me the
exact things?i mean just tell me the exact story whats going on maybe i can
recall it.
i hope you get it & again sorry for the language & manner. thank you very
much
Y not point u in the direction of the orange instead, rather than
describing it–that’s what religion seems like 2 me
Hey man.. Im 18. Im just wandering into this topic. I just want to know why
do we need to be spiritual in the sense you put it? What really is the need
for us to be spiritual? And regarding the things you said about
religions.. If the prophets of the different religions didnt wan’t the
followers to be doing what they do now and as you said would want to
disband them if they saw what the religions are upto now, then why would
they themselves say in various scriptures like the Bible to follow the
rituals that they set up? By making these rituals and asking them to live
life a certain way and pouring thoughts into their mind, wasn’t it already
expected of them to be dogmatic in a sense as most of the dogmas they
follow were set up by the people who made the religions, the prophets,
themselves! If not, what end were they trying to get to with the religions
and what did they expect people to do as opposed to what they are doing
today?
Hi Leo. I wanted to know the truth so i watched the whole thing… You know
i want to make a connection between spirituality and religion, so my idea
can be clear. Let’s say you see that orange… We have to agree first that
all humans beings are by nature spirituals, which means that they can get
that true reality in the first micro seconds when seeing the orange,
okay… So you say that spirituality is experiencing that true reality
constantly. Well, let me tell you something: Does it have a meaning to you?
Let’s say you have been a victim of injustice, if you don’t put meaning to
it, you will be depressed and surely kill yourself. religion makes meaning
of everything ‘that is why it has to be expensive’, so suppose i am
religious person, and we are going to see the orange at the same time: We
will experience the same true reality in the first beginning, but then i
can make a meaning to it because i have a belief structure, what about you?
Thanks for the video. The idea that the ego doesn’t exist doesn’t scare me.
I’m familiar with the idea and have accepted it through logic and
word-games. Though I’ve yet to kick it out of my system, per say. That’s
the hard part of it that scares me. I’m not convinced that it would be
worth it. And I’m aware that this is a response my ego is putting forth, so
to keep existing in my mind. In fact, this entire comment is my ego trying
to convince myself that it should stick around. Is it really worth it
though? To put my system through the torment of ripping apart all it’s
beliefs, including the one in my mind which believes in its own existence,
and having the current way I live life flipped around (and affecting my
friend’s and family’s lives), just to see life in another way, which by the
time my system dies it might not even matter? If consciousness was outside
of the mind, I would consider it worth it because it might then actually
matter beyond the death of this system/body. (I’m aware that consciousness
does not contain the ego, and that my ego would not be the thing living
beyond death.) What makes that worth it more? The idea that the
experiencing consciousness that experiences reality keeps experiencing
things. Consciousness probably doesn’t have a preference to keep or not
keep experiencing reality though. So then my ego is somehow connected to
the want of my consciousness experiencing reality after the death of my
body. I’m attached to the idea of living life and don’t want it to
completely end. Can you understand that though? My desire for you to tell
me that the experiences never end. (I don’t care that the ego dies when the
body dies.) I can see why you sat in a fetal position on your couch for
days. It’s saddening to me, I feel really defeated as I shatter my beliefs
into oblivion.
My questions here are: Is it worth it, and does it even matter in the end?
And do the experiences of consciousness stop upon death of the body? (And
is my ego attached to that question?)
I’d really appreciate your insights here.
7:35 I would agree that most non-scientists would use words like “true” and
“real” when describing scientific ideas, and many scientists use the words
casually. However, most scientists, if push came to shove, would say that
there are no “true models” there are only “best models.” You claim that
science is not open-minded, yet we can show examples of entire scientific
communities shifting their paradigm once data confirms a new concept or
model. There are very few religious leaders, politicians, or even
“spiritualists” (still not sure after watching this for 46 minutes how you
define that) who have done the same.
There is no such thing as right or wrong, true freedom is the ability to
choose for yourself what is truth. So when you say that your “map” is the
right path, then you are wrong. I am sorry, you are wrong. The purpose of
free will is to have a choice to begin with, which is my current
philosophy. If there is only one “correct” path as you speak of, then you
are circumventing the purpose of free will. Even if all of this is just
words, thoughts, and titles I give to things, they still EXIST because they
exist as physical thought processes in my mind. So aren’t you being a bit
contradictory?
However, are you saying I am supposed to be AWARE of my own thoughts? Well,
sure, and honestly I can agree with that entirely. Awareness and thoughts
appear to be different things according to this spirituality, because
awareness is also tied to experiencing things firsthand. You first became
“fully aware”, then you experience spirituality. I have had a moment like
this a few times, and it is pretty weird, as well as scary (it, however,
ended up being relaxing). But, in this entire video, you never said you
HAVE to do this constantly. So perhaps spirituality can be a useful tool to
attaining the calm so many stressed out people need?
Well, not a bad video, even if I don’t agree with all of it!
Most advanced concept? Really? It’s not. There are many concepts that are
harder to grasp. Quantum physics, DNA sequences, the inner working of the
human brain, and the entirety of whatever consciousness is to name a few.
Leo, sorry but I see this as “BS”. Even if what you say is true, what
would it matter?
That, through practiced “connection” and practiced lack of “assumption” or
“perception” you can have a spiritual experience with something? What is
the point? There is a spiritual realm, one part, you want to communicate
with, the other you don’t. Only the Jewdeau Christian line of thinking
will lead one to the Savior, Jesus Christ and to the Holy Spirit
to whom we can truly communicate on a spiritual level. To communicate
spiritually to any other power will lead to the invitation of evil into
your life.
it would be best if you stick to the theme of self help.. the shit u have
said now are all points of view. theres no facts.
You believe that we can come in contact with truth right ?
I don’t get everything you said I mean I am very open minded and i see how
if you look at the big picture which is really the only picture we are all
one. And i know that words is a really bad way of communicating but what is
this thing about forgetting all that we know. I mean if i try to forget i
need to eat I may end up getting hungry but then how am i going to find out
what is food and how to grow it since i don`t live in a fruit forest like
in the past and it is my ancestors that though me how to grow potatoes
instead of eating fruits from trees? This is probably missing what you
meant to say but personally before watching this i believed i needed to
question everything and to never believe anything to solidly, but I guess
there is a difference between experiencing truth and learning things that
are practical in your life. I guess you are saying if i did not know what
food was and experienced a watermelon in a pure way without preconceived
ideas it would be truth? And knowing things like watermelon is the swollen
ovula bearing the seeds of a vine plant that has female and male flowers
that need to be pollinated by another living being in other to reproduce
and illusion but if i experienced it for myself without knowing it, it
would be truth? interesting, even though i know this looking at a
watermelon plant surrounded by bees pollinating it and the ovual swollen
bigger and bigger as they are getting fed by the plant “umbilical cord“
turning the sun and soil into watermelon and the whole even broader
ecosystem around it is still really mind blowing too look at and think
about, and i never would of seen it without others explaining it first. But
i dont know really i dont believe we can experience truth, we can
experience nothing but perceptions, i mean truth cannot be seen throught
perception because a bee for example see`s through the UV light spectrum to
find the nectar and so colors are different to them than they are for us.
But if you suddenly tap in to being one with everything do you suddenly
know things by instinct kind of the way a bird know how to fly south and
back to exactly the same spot…?
I had hard time lately because of matters I thought Iv buried for good long
time ago, it came out of nowhere like a complete nonsense just a
visualisation of disturbing memory, made belive sensation on body and there
you go, I was on this route of chaotic judgemental thoughts again, before I
almost realised it, I was asleep.
Today Iv find out the gateaway from this self cticizing state, as I heard
alarm clock which to me was, to question. wait, is it really? and It took
very long time to finally understand the purpouse and actuale practical use
of meditation, I couldnt figure out how despite my ussuall common sense I
would be so much killing myself over the same cases again, all this work.
So long story short, as Iv grasped some vein as you can see. There is
tremendous trap in really understanding the thought, case which is on your
mind and JUDGING it as an (maybe ego defensive) reaction.
The only thing I had to change to day was to just Observe my thoughts
without judging it immediately, then I realised that I have absolutely
different opinion about it than the one Iv been dweeling on for last 24+
hours. I had even thoughts that just plain observation is a waste of time..
because you should be processing it consciously till you probably eventualy
die of unhappiness. Observation gave me so much deeper and more grounded
understanding of those dilemmas I couldnt just accept, its not even the
problem of understanding its like It wasnt even my goal, just constant
judgement, -that was wrong, cant accept this, it is painfull, how to cope,
what am I nuts?”
So now I think that the regular practice, habit of meditation is to help
you get accustomed with this approach to processing thoughts by mindfull
observation instead of mindless judgement. Leo, would you mind patting me
on the shoulder?
PS.Im also voraciously interested in some solid book about thoughts
patterns, could you suggest me some?