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There are six skills that are essential for healthy emotional functioning, and people who lack these skills are what we would describe as emotionally immature or underdeveloped. They don’t know how to process their feelings, so when uncomfortable feelings arise, they act out because they don’t have the skills to tolerate distress and deal with it in a healthy way, much like a six-year-old child. In essence, emotional immaturity is at the heart of a narcissistic personality. Here at the Marriage Recovery Center our treatment for narcissistic personality focuses on the development of these six critical skills that are needed for emotional maturity and healthy relating: boundaries, being receptive to critical feedback, empathy, active listening, distress tolerance, understanding and expressing feelings in a healthy way.
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Dr. Hawkins and his team of experts offer education and professional training as well as treatment for narcissistic and emotional abuse.
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About
The internet is inundated with hyperbole and misinformation about narcissism, leaving many people confused and hopeless. Get the facts about narcissism and emotional abuse from someone who has been researching, writing about and treating narcissism and emotional abuse for over a decade.
Dr. Hawkins is a best-selling author and clinical psychologist with over three decades of experience helping people break unhealthy patterns and build healthier relationships. He is the founder and director of the Marriage Recovery Center and the Emotional Abuse Institute which offers education, training and counseling for people who want to break free of, and heal from, emotional abuse.
Whether the perpetrator of the abuse is your spouse, partner, parent, boss, friend or family member, we offer practical advice for anyone trapped in a toxic, destructive relationship. In addition to narcissism & emotional abuse, topics include covert, reactive, spiritual, secondary, relationship trauma and more.
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I'm so glad to have found this, because there are so many folk on Youtube now saying 'it is hopeless, just run', but hardly any real deep investigation to prove their statements. I find myself in my old age in what seems to be a hopeless situation with my entire family, and the issues you talk about are certainly at the root of the problem, which is seemingly insurmountable, but I have some reservations about what you say:
You talk of lack of empathy as one thing, and go on to say that empathy can be acquired. Many psychologists distinguish between 'affective' and 'cognitive' empathy, and I would go even further in looking at what it really is. There is a widespread assumption that empathy implies kindness and compassion: no, affective empathy is, I suggest (and the dictionaries say) the ability to FEEL other's feelings directly. No action is implied. I can empathise with someone who is hurting after doing something I consider foolish, but at the same time I can condemn them and think, 'but you really did ask for it!' Compassion is optional following reasoning I suggest.
Can affective empathy be learned? I think that is the big question, and the answer may be no. Is empathy genetically determined or acquired in early childhood through imprinting in a finite time window, like so many things, from vision, to intersubjectivity, to 'musical genius'. I think the latter is highly likely. If so, I really fear a whole generation of kids is now doomed as I watch what is going on in schools in the era of the mobile phone and social media.
Can cognitive empathy be learned? Probably, and I think that is where you are right.
I am one of those people who actually 'feels' pain when I see it in others. My mother was the same, but my dad was a psychopath. When I see someone step on a plank with a nail in it I grab my foot and nurse it until I feel better. Is this a genetic component of affective empathy? This sort of question might be answered by MRI studies – PET scans and all the new types of MRI active scanning. Iain McGilchrist has done work like this, and his ideas on the bicameral brain are interesting.
Sorry to present so much complication here, but I'd be interested to know you thoughts on these ideas. I've been deeply involved in these problem for many decades, going back to R D Laing, Thomas Szasz, Conrad Lorenz, Niko Tinbergen, Eible Eibesfeldt and others, and more recently the books by Richard Bentall in the UK ('Doctoring the Mind' and 'Madness Explained') and the excellent book 'The Cradle of Thought' by Peter Hobson which explains the evidence of imprinting in Romanian Orphans suffering total early neglect and subsequently adopted by loving families in the USA (they didn't all do well).
My current conclusion is that imprinting is a much neglected concept that probably plays a big part in so many so-called mental illnesses, from autism to NPD, but we need research and evidence based conclusions. At the same time, I welcome the hope you bring at last. If people can learn cognitive empathy and especially that 'ability to listen to constructive criticism' which is so damning in it's total absence then there is some hope.
We are in the grip of woke ideology coming out of post-modern theory. This seems to me to be closely connected to NPD but no one is linking the two.
You can't teach somebody how not to be a narcissist.
Awkward to the max, they don't pick up on social ques. I am not the best in social situations, but he would embarrass me, every time. I had a long talk with him, one year. It was about not knowing when to leave when visiting. Not only did I want to leave, but I picked up that the hosts were ready for us to leave. He was oblivious to this and to me talking to him about it. I suggested that he look at me and I would kind of give a head-nod for him to know it was time for us to go. Forget it! He just could not grasp anything I was trying to explain to him, only because he thought he was so special that the host never wanted him to leave. I finally gave up and divorced him, because of the problems being more than this issue. It's been over 30 years, now. Was married to him over 20 years and had 5 kids with him. Never did he want to spend time with us, only others to try to impress upon them how special he was.
Being away from the narcs rarely seeing them for o er 35 years, yeah they have none of these skills and seeing their behavior during and after as my mother was dying from cancer, yeah they are truly perverse sick individuals and have become far more decrepit in thought word and deed as they have aged. . They are not the same emotionally stunted, cruel, spiteful vindictive, incapable non listeners as they were growing up., they are worse. The abuse towards me once again started when I remained close enough (while helping care for my mother), has only stopped when I’ve gone no contact. This time I called them out on their abuse and was met with more perverted more cruel disgusting abuse so I simply stopped all interaction. Each have hoovered me via other relatives but life is too short to give any opportunity to toxic people to once again be toxic to you. I’m done.👍🏼
9:30 focus on the space. Tip to myself
Lol.. narcissists don’t get treatment just like they never apologize. It’s only when you leave them that they might finally get it. By then, it’s too late for the relationship you had with them.
They would rather play the liars' game+ stay the way they are. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
This is great work thank you! I wish everyone could hear this! I shared.
The narcissists have great boundaries. It is their VICTIMS that need to create good boundaries.
Dr I made an appointment for a over the phone consultation. Sadly I didn’t hear back from your office. I really would like to speak with you about my situation.
Thanks for your message I have a very narcissistic and emotionally abusive mother and fortunately am barely speaking to her but the rage is a thing
Narcsists are useless people they know they can b on top only by degrading and humiliating good people
I can't express how comforting it is to hear someone who understands talk about all this! So refreshing! Thank you! I've already scheduled my first session for next month. I was just thinking of one addition I would personally like to see. Maybe make the acronym CREATES. And the last S could be for "Saying thank you and I'm sorry." It's avoided at all costs in my experience with the narcissist. And that's extremely painful.
Isn't that the truth! Narcissists can't even spell the word boundaries much less know what they mean. My narc knows not to interfere with the way I raise my son; I've told her enough times. But she tries to undermine me by giving him everything I tell him he can't have. It gets on my nerves! My sister can't stand not being loved best. She doesn't even want her own children to love anybody but her. Don't know what she gonna do when her boys get married. Maybe their wives will be willing to put up with her just so they can stay married.
2 weeks ago had another bad confrontation with my spouse, but something clicked in my mind and did some research only to come to the awful realization that shes a narcissist. She displays nearly all the warning signs, some very strongly especially controlling behavior. After years of crazy baffling behavior this is good to know but is horrible to think she wont change. Can barely speak with her anymore since she has to always be right and in control and conversations are usually trainwrecks. Im resisting the urge to shut down but don't know what else to do. I'm in the "grey rock" stage now and deeply thinking of my options. I know there's no chance of her admitting she could be a natcissist, so therapy is no option. She wasnt this bad when we met but some red flags were there, I had no idea what narcissism was then. The last 2 weeks after this realization have been severely depressing. She's totally oblivious about how her bossy, pushy, domineering attitude wrecks everything. I've watched over and over as things were going well, inevitably she would poison things and always blame someone else. I'm at my wits end.
Useful reminders
Is there any help foe those that think they are a narc? I relate to a lot of these poor skills and don't even know where to start to improve.
Unfortunately in our family, the narcissist has all the support and the others are either narcissists themselves or enablers. It feels like an impossible situation, but the Lord is helping me live through it without support. I have grown stronger because I have had to be a lone a lot.
Narcissists in my life could not do any of these things and would cruelly mock me if I ever asked for these. It would be an affront to them and in insult if I wanted anything. Active listening? You've got to be kidding! Active soul destroying rage or cold contempt and dismissal, yep they can do that.
I don’t have empathy but I want to learn. I want to be a better person. I’m tired of being a bad husband. I start out well but can’t seem to maintain that drive. I don’t tolerate distress either. I’m a mess.
Wonderful podcast.
Dr David
You didn't talk about fear or cowardice regarding MANY areas of life that is probably what actually pushes a child or any person to become narcissistic, especially to become a vulnerable narcissist.
Can you speak to how a therapist would help a an adult overcome their fear(s)?